Blogs : Nate Jenkins

Training September 22 to 28

Monday AM woods 9 solo, easy, 1:01:17, quads a bit tight from race and drive, tot. 9

              1:30PM Finn for treatment

              PM woods 8 solo shakeout, 1:03:23 tot. 8

Tuesday 9AM Methuen rd. 13(hilly), solo, 1:19:37 tot. 13

               4PM at mines falls w/ uml team, 19:20 w/up strides, progression run, 2128 or

                        2123 meter loop (can’t remember), loop had one good down and one good

                        uphill in it(only hill in the place), maxed it out at about a 90% effort

                        saving some for tomorrow, lap 1-7:31.5(2k split-7:00), lap 2-

                        14:39.6(7:08.2-2k split-6:38), lap 3-21:32.3(6:52.7-2k split-6:20), lap 4-

                        28:06.2(6:34-2k split-6:06), lap 5-34:36.6(6:30.4- 2k split-6:02) rex and

                        ruben went faster but I opted to stay at a pace at which I was able to talk.,

                        14:56 c/down tot. 11++

                 XT Myrtle and core, rubber band hip stuff

Wednesday 11AM at mines falls, 35:35 w/up, 4.5ish, progression run on Factory loop,

                              Lap1 12:46.2, lap 2-12:22.5(25:08.6), Lap 3-11:59.2(37:07.8), Lap 4-

                               11:04.8(48:12.5) 22:48 c/down 3- each loop is 2 and ¼ miles.

                               Tot.16++

                    3PM 9 miles on hilly Dracut dumbbell loop, ¼ mile 2:27, 5 miles easy 32:50,

                             3 miles mp, 15:04.4(5:00, 10:02), ¾  mile back to truck in 4:42, 55:04,

                             tot. 9

                     XT Myrtle and core

Thursday AM woods 9+ first 3 w/ gary, angus, jose, 1:05:21 tot.9

                Noon finn

                PM 35 mins w/up 10x 12 second hills, 25 min c/down w/ joey, tot.9

                XT shin drills

Friday AM woods 10 w/ joey, easy, 1:09:05 tot. 10

           PM woods 6 w/ Emily, then 2 solo on track shakeout, 1:04:21 tot.8

Saturday AM woods 10+ solo easy, 1:13:02 tot. 10+

               PM woods 8, solo shakeout, 1:05:00 tot.8

Sunday AM on Dracut dumbbell loop, 5 ½ miles 30:58 stopped for potty break stretch

                    and ½ mile jog, 4 miles 20:23(5:01, 10:09, 15:11) hammy went, 29:17

                     c/down tot. 16+

              PM 3.5 w/up, legs shaking like mad after this w/up, 8400m on track, 28:53,

                     hammy went, 2:47 rest stretch, 3x2k w/ 400 jog rest 5:54.9, 5:58.7, 5:59.7)

                     3.5 c/down tot. 17

Summary 153 miles, some good quality work.  I’m truly fit like I have never been but the hamstring/hip thing is flaring up again.  I’ll talk to the finn on Tuesday and make a final decision of what to do. I’m not in a particularly good mood.  I don’t know exactly what the problem is I haven’t made much change in the type of cross training and treatment. Doing stuff that bothers it more is definitely part of the problem but I’m not real sure if it’s the only thing.  I can change stuff a bit and be ok to race we’ll see what the finn says.  I really want to go because I’m just way fitter then I have ever been but I don’t know what I can do with this thing I feel confidant that I’m in shape to run 5:00 min miles on a hilly course but if I can’t get the hammy/hip to hold up it doesn’t do me much good.

Nice Work- Looking forward to NYC

7:32 PM, September 29, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey Nate-

I'm a tired 3:02 marathoner but like checking your log because it keeps me motivated. Like alot of people who do, I thought you had big things coming for the trials. Best of luck with NYC, I think you are due a 2:12.

Old, Slow and Tired!

thank you

8:04 PM, September 29, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

Thanks for the kind words and for reading the blog!
nate

mileage

8:54 PM, September 29, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Nat,
Out of interest what is your ideal goal with regard to maximum weekly mileage?- 153 seems to be the limit man- dont know how you do it!! My coach wonders how long you can sustain this pressure on your body and mind. It makes my 85mpw seem weak and pathetic! Your our hero and have our admiration and support in your quest for glory.

mileage

2:45 AM, September 30, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

I really don't sweat mileage all that much I used to chase it and that was counter productive, obviously I am a fan of high miles but I don't add up miles when I lay out a schedule, I lay out the work I want to do and the miles are what they are. The exception is when I'm purposely trying to keep it down.
Now I do think its an important part of training but if you are training right you are going to be doing some good miles. But there are great runners who do lower miles and great runners who do very high miles.
I do caution that doing more then say 110 a week on a consistance basis for races shorter then the half marathon is probably counter productive unless you really have an eye towards the marathon down the line. You are better off doing more aerobic quality. I think this is the real issue to many americans seem to think that tempo is one specific paced workout. I think that most of the workouts we do should be aerobic in nature some form of tempo, progression or aerobic interval. I'm talking like 10xmile at 5:30 pace on short rest for a 31 flat 10k runner. real easy quick running. It seems silly but do stuff like this regularly and you'll be shocked at the success that comes from it.
As to the limit, 150's really aren't bad I used to do them around work and school and it was rougher then but I also wasn't as strong. Now the other thing is doing bigger weeks here and there helps. So doing a block of big miles for 12 days this summer was a huge help. It isn't the kind of mileage i'm in shape to handle all the time but doing blocks of it helps fitness and makes what I'm doing regularly go down easier.
In the end miles are pretty straight forward and easy to add but the real story is the aerobic quality work. Experiment with it, do it regularly, learn to love it and love the results. but also don't fear miles they are our friend, a friend that can bite but still. Build carefully make sure to insert a week of higher mileage away from racing seasons to help you increase miles later. Too often people who run 80 a week all the time up it to 90 for the first time and just keep rolling at 90. this makes no sense. You do 85 miles a week regularly now. So say in Dec. when you aren't racing do one week of 105 and then go back to 85's then next summer when you are starting to dip into the 90's with regularity do a week or two of 110. no big deal and handling for week isn't tough but it shows the body what it can do and makes the everyday stuff easier and helps you build your normal weekly miles up later.
But to be honest tell your coach he need not worry I got another 10 years of miles in my legs and after that I'll step it back if I have to. I've been doing a lot of 140 pluses for 4 or 5 years now and feel much much better doing it now then when I started.

hip / hammy

12:01 PM, September 30, 2008 .. Posted by Jay

Nate,

With the recent news of the hip/hammy acting up more again I was wondering if in your quest to fix it you had put any thought into the shoes you wear? I know you have said that you wear light racing flats all the time. I am not by any means saying this is wrong because I dont know your foot type or pronation factors, but just currious if you had reannalyzed this part of your running at all? Wether it be a shoe with more cushioning or more stability? I guess really I am just currious wether professional athletes when dealing with chronic injuries take footwear into consideration or if they just focus on muscle imbalances?

Shoes

12:48 PM, September 30, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

this is going to be way more info then your looking for but I hope that it will give an idea of how I have approached injuries and shoe selection and why I do what I do in terms of shoes and injuries.
I've had this problem for 18 months or so and during that time I have worn between 6 and 10 different styles of trainers ranging from 8 oz type A2's to stability beasts Omni's at the moment I'm doing most of my miles in the Ride which is a normal to heavy nuetral traininer. I prefer to run in something lighter but I had bruised a met head real bad this winter and its been a bit tender off and on so I've been babying it.
Now no shoe has any effect on the hip/hammy thing good or bad. I have also gone to Tom Michaud, who is sort of the east coast guru on orthotics and works with some of the best runners in the world on a regular basis, to see if I needed orthotics, I don't.
Finally I don't where all these light flexable shoes as a sort of whim I like them and use them because years of getting hurt from what have become more normal shoes steadily lead me to wearing lighter more flexible shoes. The more stuff that gets in the way of your natural motion is for 95% of people a bad thing. But the guys at shoe stores would have you believe that its the other way around and only 5% of people or less should be wearing flexible neutral shoes. I had chronic shin problems that cost me months of running time, constantly mis-diagnosed as stress fractures- school doc didn't wanted bonus from ins. company for less bone scans so would just put you in a boot and say it'll be fine in 2 months, then when it wasn't I'd go find someone else to help it, It happened again and again. Also I had achilles and hamstring tendinitis problems. Finally a real good PT I was seeing said that I should get smaller lighter more flexable shoes, after I had done everything under the sun, including three expensive pairs of custom orthotics. Wham after a few months in light shoes I was running without shin pain for really the first time in my life. I also stopped missing time with the big injuries.
Now its not to say I haven' had any problems since. I hurt my IT band a couple of times doing downhill sprints during a Lydiard hill phase. I have had this hip/hammy thing for about 18 months. I have bruised met heads to different degrees a number of times, I haven't had to miss time for this but man can they be unpleasant. I got a real bad blister that I ran funny on for a couple of 150 mile weeks and got a stress reaction on the other side of my foot from that, but I was able to run through it because the blister heeled and I could run normal and as long as I stayed away from right hand turns and uneven terrain I was fine. I also got tendinitis in my knee this winter but a week or two of single leg squats free me from that, though that was a miserable couple of training weeks. I hurt my achilles and missed a few days this spring by wearing spikes for the first time in two years, stupid! I also still hurt my peroneal tendon which was a problem in college. But now it doesn't creep up on me, it just gets bad after I roll an ankle, so I just keep up with the exercises for it and get it worked on. Other then one time in the fall of '05 I have remembered to do this and never missed more then a day for that.

shoes

6:29 PM, September 30, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey Nate,

Keep up the training, Incredible!!
Do you wear any specific kind of shoe at mine falls?
I've noticed you seem to do a lot of progression and up tempo stuff there. Just curious as I've noticed when I run there the terrain can be pavement, then hard soil or gravel and then soft dirt or mud. I actually come out of there sore. I use a light weight trainer in there. Good luck in New York next month.
Thanks,
Mark

Mines falls shoe

7:07 PM, September 30, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

I have been running my progressions and tempos up there in my new all time favorite shoe, the saucony fastwitch 3, http://www.saucony.com/ShoeDetails.aspx?gen=m&use=Race&id=1083&rel=1110,1115,1083,1128,1086,1093,1089,1116,1090,1144,1142 k . These things are awesome. In the past I did some workouts in the type A2's up there but they are thing and sometimes I found them too thin and some rocks would hurt my met heads. That said rex and ruben from the uml team have used type A2's up there without mentioning any problems. but in short I use basically the same shoes I do anywhere. I've never got sore from running there in fact its much softer then the roads i tend to run and much better footing then the woods here in lowell so I go up there to get a break for the body. But if you have been getting a little banged up maybe try the Ride, http://www.saucony.com/ShoeDetails.aspx?gen=m&use=Run&id=1134&rel=1118,1110,1107,1148,1109,1140,1138,1104,1113,1041,1076,1058,1102,1067,1064,1062,1146,1134,1136,1152,1150 , or something like it that has a little more cushioning but is still flexible.
Ok thats my saucony pitch for the day. oh except to add that you should cruise around the sight a bit and check out the embarrassing photo's of me.
nate

Thanks

8:51 PM, September 30, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey Nate,
Thanks for your well detailed reply and advice- cant believe that you can reply so quick and in such detail offering guidance and information etc to other runners.You deserve the title of Gentleman amongst marathon men! Hope you achieve your goals you deserve the success. Cheers man!

thanks

10:15 PM, September 30, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

well thank you.

NYC

12:06 PM, October 1, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Nate,

Just wondering how the meeting with the fin went? Have you made a decision on what to do about NYC? Also what are your thoughts on the national marathon championships this weekend, any thoughts on who the major contenders might be? Hope things went well yesterday and you are less discouraged!

NYC for me and the twin cities field

1:20 PM, October 1, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

I saw the finn yesterday and things went very well. I'm a 100% in for NYC and am very confidant that at the minimum the hip/hammy is at least where it was for the trials last year and that I am much much fitter this time around. I am going there really expecting to challange for the top 10 and depending on how the race unfolds maybe sneak up for the top 5 and sub 2:12.
Twin Cities
they brought in just a great field this year. I'll paste it below. My pick for the win is Mike Morgan. Mike ran great at the world champs in Osaka in 'O7, people really don't realize just how well him and Kyle O'Brien ran at those championships because the heat was so oppressive and the times were so slow. Mike also bounced back and running basically unprepared and tired still finished 12th at the trials. Also he tends to really grind up guys in the training. So I'm picking Mike in 2:12 for the win, maybe 2:11.
But even though he is my pick I would say he has less then a 50% chance at winning because I think it will be a dog fight up there. Dan Browne is ready to go and most likely will run 2:12. Fernando Cabada is back on form and could certainly challenge this is a tougher course then he ran in Japan but he probably ran a lot of that race alone and experience counts for a lot in the marathon. Justin Young ran 2:13 this spring and if he has continued to improve he could also challange and again he probably ran a lot of that race alone so though its a slower course he could still get a solid PR.
Now you can't ignore Fazil he hasn't run a real good marathon yet but he was much better at the trials and if he is still training the same way and runs a bit less aggressively he could really rip it.
some other dark horses that should run real well are Sheehan, Johnson, Raabe, Sawe and Vega. I'm also extremely interested to see Josh Moen's run. I'm not sure that he is a marathoner but he is for my money america's premier pure road runner right now and if the marathon is his cup of tea he could run real well and even steal the whole thing.
Now I know what your saying, Nate you just picked practically the whole field. Well true and I've really held back here I like some of the other guys I didn't mention, particularly Ordway and Cele, but I think that is the nature of this field very deep but without a real head and shoulders above guy. I hope conditions are good and everyone works together because if they do this could turn into a great day for American marathoning with 10 or 15 guys coming in sub 2:15 and a half dozen under 2:13.
Men's Open
Last Name First Name Age City State PR Marathon
Browne Dan 32 Portland OR 2:11:35 Twin Cities
Cabada Fernado 26 Gray TN 2:12:27 Fukuoka
Young Justin 28 Boulder CO 2:13:54 Rotterdam
Downin Matthew 31 Madison WI 2:14:35 New York City
Sawe Simon 34 Santa Fe NM 2:13:40 Grandma's
Johnson Chad 32 Rochester Hills MI 2:15:03 Chicago
Morgan Mike 28 Rochester Hills MI 2:15:11 Chicago
Leslie Brandon 32 Santa Fe NM 2:15:21 Chicago
Ordway Josh 28 fairborn OH 2:15:39 Austin
Schuetze Nick 26 Portland OR 2:16:42 St. George
Bizuneh Fazil 28 Flagstaff AZ 2:16:47 Olympic Trials '08
Raabe Christopher 29 Washington DC 2:17:01 Olympic Trials '08
Lundstrom Chris 32 Minneapolis MN 2:17:34 Twin Cities
Sayenko Mike 24 Bellevue WA 2:18:35 Olympic Trials '08
Yout Macharia 26 Minneapolis MN 2:18:58 Olympic Trials '08
Batres Mark 24 Rowland Heights CA 2:19:07 Las Vegas
Eberly Joshua 28 Gunnison CO 2:19:24 Chicago
Ryf Jason 37 Oshkosh WI 2:19:37 Chicago
Gabrielson Matt 30 Minneapolis MN 2:19:53 New York
Briney Trent 30 Flagstaff AZ 2:12:34 Olympic Trials '04
Sheehan Ryan 25 Rochester Hills MI debut
Rodriguez Cele 27 Flagstaff AZ debut
Vega Antonio 24 St.Paul MN debut
Moen Josh 26 Readlyn IA debut
Handler Carlos 26 Boulder CO debut
Hirsch Nicholas 25 Gunnison CO debut
Middleton Andrew 24 Flagstaff AZ debut

Women's Oly Marathon Trials

6:43 PM, October 1, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

So we know the men's standards. Any idea what the women's will be? Don't think they are set yet, but what do you think will happen?

training

9:07 PM, October 1, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey nate,

Have you been training with the Moultons at all?
Are they still looking at Marathons or just doing local stuff?

women oly trials and the moultons

11:03 PM, October 1, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

don't know what they'll do with the womens standard it is already much weaker then the mens but they're numbers would drop a lot if they drop even a couple of minutes.
I haven't run with either of the moultons, I don't know what their plans are, sorry.

nyc

7:09 PM, October 2, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

hey nate, this is probably not a real tactful question but i'm curious how these things work, are you getting any appearance money at NYC? I would think your 7th place at OT in NYC would at least put you on the radar. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing you up at the front of NYC!

letsrun coverage

7:21 PM, October 2, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Letsrun had a preview of the American men at NYC this year and they didn't even mention you! I was about to start an angry thread but decided that was more interaction with letsrunners than I need. I think a 2:11 will get a little recognition, although I thought 7th at the trials would too, so who knows?

Side question, I know you caught some flak from a bunch of morons about your 12 day high mileage cycle, but now that some time has passed and you're obviously in good shape, how much do you think that training period help you?

Oh and good luck at NYC, all of my runner friends and I are rooting for you.

NYC marathon questions

12:47 AM, October 3, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

NYRR sent me an email on monday, two actually, asking if I was absolutely in for the the marathon. Problem was I was running around a bit on monday and didn't get them until tuesday and I responded that I was in. Now I haven't heard back from them since then so I can't say for sure that I am in the race. But my guess is that I got the response to NYRR too late for the press release, which is very disappointing to me and I'm sure Saucony isn't too happy with me about it either. But its my mistake. NYRR have never treated me with anything but class and respect. I only mention that because before checking this I saw a line on the letsrun boards that suggested I was being disrespected by not being mentioned on the press release or letsrun front page.
Now as far as I am concerned I'm a 100% go for the NYC marathon. Now if I was in fact too slow to respond and they gave my spot to someone else or they have been reading the blog and don't want to bet on my hip holding together I'll hold no ill will towards the NYRR. Now I feel I can get it ready for race day but if they don't agree and they don't want to foot the bill to give me a shot to try, that is fine, I'm fit, but this is not a cycle that has gone totally to plan and I'm not 100% sure the hip/hammy will hold up for the marathon and also I'm a person of patience and persistence and I'll simply refocus my season on the manchester thanksgiving day race and the club cross championships and aim for a marathon further down the road. I'll have to take some lumps with Saucony because I'll be backing out of what I told them but they are great folks who have treated me terrifically and they'll be great about this I'm sure.
Ok so now as to me running new york and the press release you know what I know.
Now as to appearance fee's, basically I don't get them. I obviously haven't finalized anything with NYRR so that is a possibility still. I have got a few hundred dollars to run some races as appearance fee's but mostly I get travel and hotel and per diem. Now I didn't run Boston but I had been lined up to run that race and I didn't have an appearance promised in that race. Now in retrospect I think that may have made a error to not fight for one there, the problem with not having an agent is that I don't have much experience. But as the local guy coming off a good race at the trials I think I should have tried harder to get a small appearance fee.

Missed side question

4:03 PM, October 3, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

Sorry I realized after I posted my response last night that I missed your side question.
How much do I think the 12 block of high miles that I got so much flack for help me. Well obviously I have run much much better since it then I was before, though mostly that is because I was anemic during the races before and am not now.
To be honest I think it was a good block and it helped me really get into training very quickly but I think that its big benefits were towards marathon prep and that much of that was lost because I had to cut some of the marathon workouts short ect. It is something I will most definitely do again but I'm not as thrilled with it as say I was the results from my first special block workout. Its a good tool but not the key to future break throughs for me, I think.

Untitled Comment

12:56 PM, October 5, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

hey nate, just got my latest issue of RW and I saw a pic of you in the saucony advert all the way on the right. It seemed like you were standing in some airport escalator, pretty sweet.

I have a question regarding your preperation now for the final weeks leading to NYC. I've read in the past that training groups like Hansons and other elite marathoners do race "simulator runs", will you be doing the same.

Ya that was me in the airport

2:36 PM, October 5, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

I won't be doing any simulator runs for three reasons. Frankly I have never been able to run that far at marathon pace in training, not even close. Second my whole specific phase is all about marathon paced running, this is the area I think many of the groups miss out on. Now hansons does do the simulator, great workout, but its about the only thing they are doing at mp in their build-up. For me this seems silly why not have most of your work be at the pace you plan on running get as good at that pace as possible, teach the body to burn more fat at that speed ect.. Now obviously they have had some real success but I wonder if they couldn't do a little better. There was a great article on Ritz's training before the trials, and if you compare it to the article on what he did before his first marathon you'll see he did way more marathon specific work. result? a 3 minute PR. Now could it have just been experience, sure, but I don't think so.
the last reason is that I'm trying to get my hammy/hip back under control and marathon pace for a long time bothers it. So the only mp work I'll be doing is some mile repeats at marathon pace in a couple weeks.
Lastly I still don't know if I'm in NYC or not so I may end up shifting focus and hitting some shorter races, need a few pay days if I'm going get through the winter, so I would end up doing Mayors cup, USATF-NE cross champs, a thanksgiving race, probably manchester, and USATF club cross country nationals.
nate

Untitled Comment

8:58 PM, October 5, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Nate, I've noticed that you've mentioned a few times that you're not sure if you'll get into NYC and if not you'll do other races. Don't let all your training and that super comp phase be in vain for a cross country season, run NYC if you can. Give the race directors an e-mail, get that spot in the elite wave. Even if your not sure the hammy will hold up, I'd still try to run NYC, if you can hold it together that would be some great exposure for you and give you a very high ranking time for the american men this year. You can do it Nate, goodluck with the rest of your training and your season!

go for it nate.

11:14 PM, October 5, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey nate, even though I am a complete stranger and have no influence on what you do in life,but I feel the comment above is right.

After all the struggle youve dealt with youve been able to put in some pretty good training.I feel you would be cheating yourself out of an awesome opportunity to shine. Yeah sure youve done all the USATF XC/road races, except a big city marathon. Who really knows how well you can do?

try to weasle your way in. good luck.