Today was my 20k tempo attempt to test my hamstring to see
if I could go for a fall marathon, NYC to be specific.I used a tough little 4k figure 8 I like up
at mines falls.It is a bit long and has
one good hill, which is only really of note because mines falls is so
flat.It also has a lot of sharp
turns.But none of that is on topic.I have used this loop a few times before,
including last month.I have only made
it 11k and about 12k before the hammy went, both times it was around the same
pace as today, and then both times I pushed a little beyond that to finish at a
maker.
I had given myself a
50/50 chance of making it to 20k.But to
be honest I have had my hopes up a few times over the last 18 months and it has
never worked out so I really didn’t think it would work out.
Ok enough build
up.I made it 20k without the hamstring
ever going.So it was a huge
success.I felt the hammy at a few spots
and if I had to guess I could have made it 24k or so before it went.On the plus side it was pretty hot out and I
still felt super easy running at that pace, 3:22 a kilo/ 5:25 a mile.It felt like a walk.It was great.Though I do have to admit that it has been a long time since I have been
able to do any long tempo work like this and my legs could feel it after.
So NYC marathon is
a go.That makes the fall schedule the CowHarbor
10k on Saturday September 20.Then the
ING Hartford Half Marathon on Saturday October 11 then the big one the ING New
York City Marathon on Sunday November 2.All three courses are rolling.So
I’ll be doing a lot of training on my rolling mp training loop that I used to
get ready for the trials.
Now its time to
get to work I’ll start specific prep work on Monday and I couldn’t be happier
about it.
12:45 AM, September 5, 2008
.. Posted by Anonymous
Nate, glad to hear it went well today and it was fairly warm too. Just out of curiosity, I frequent mine falls alot. Where do you begin that 4 k loop and which way do you go. Are you by stellos or near the high school. Congrats on your race last week. I enjoyed your article you wrote on that race. You were still there at 4miles and that has to be encouraging. Keep up the incredible training. Mark
Untitled Comment
12:56 AM, September 5, 2008
.. Posted by Anonymous
Nate, Definitely happy to hear your tempo run went well and you will be able to focus on a fall marathon. I was thinking it might be nice if you could talk about nutrition especially since you are seeing a nutrionist. I think it would be helpfull for others to maybe see what you were doing and what you are now doing. Also any tips your nutrionist would advise. Thank you for allowing us insight into your training.
ok first everyone keeps asking about the nutrition stuff. To be honest I really don't know **** about it so I haven't posted anything on it. When I get it down I'll be happy to post but it may be a while. I can also check and see if Katie wants to put together a post but she is pretty busy so no promises.
Mines falls 4k figure 8 starts and finishes just off the bridge at the hs I go straight down the tar take the left downhill to the bridge up the hill to the main trail, go left follow back past the start/finish line under rt. 3 then take the right at the next bridge and right on the little tar trail there follow it back to the hs and go rt. over the bridge thats the start finish. Like I said its got the only hill in the place and its a bit long, wheel measured it last fall, it is a bit long, maybe 20m but there is no way to hold the turns like I measured them when your running. I like the loop just don't want you on here bitching to me if you aren't hitting the times you want. If your going a bit slower you should be able to hit them but if your hammering it can be a bit tough to handle the turns, also watch out for couples on the last little tar stretch two people side by side can be tough to get by and with all the little quick turns you can pop up on someone real quick. enjoy.
great running
5:01 AM, September 5, 2008
.. Posted by alex
How's it going, its great to see you have such a great stretch of training (knock on wood). Glad to see your running NYC, I think you have a damn good chance of being the first American in. Way to keep it up man, going out there and doing draining stuff like a 12 day block of 25 miles a day really makes me want to keep building up my mileage and gets me out the door without any hesitation.
While I'm posting I thought I'd ask your opinion on something. I'm giving Baystate another go and just trying to run a solid BQ, maybe a sub 3. I'm keeping my mileage low at 45 mpw with a peak of 55 to see what I can do at low mileage. If I can run a 2:58 off of that, I'll up my mileage throughout the winter to about 70mpw to run faster at Boston. My question is that I've run 14 miles of 18 at 6:50 pace exactly over some pretty big hills about 3 weeks back without any real strain. Since that I've done more 15k race pace stuff and long runs arouns 7:20 pace or so. I'm concerned about doing repeated long MP stuff because of injury risks and the like. If I can do my medium long run of the week at MP, should I or am I taking to big a risk and maybe I should be doing 5k or 4 mile repeats at MP instead? I understand that different stuff works for different people, but I just thought I'd ask since you coach marathon runners. Thanks and good luck with your training, NYC is your type of course man!
-Alex
There really is no great replacement for mp running in marathon prep. that said if you have found that those workouts get you hurt you can cut it back to a few key workouts. say two or three runs, you really only got time for two more, of 15 to 18 miles at mp. Your low miles mean that it will be possible to do these runs, but also mean that just getting out the door and running 4x4 miles at mp with quick jog rest doesn't mean you'll be able to run that pace for the race. Also either way start running the last miles of your long run at mp. Shifting gears to run mp at the end and running it when your glycogen stores are super low and/or bankrupt is ultra important for the last 10k, if you can run the last 6 or 8 at mp that is ideal but you don't have much time to build up, but if you got 3 long runs left try last two at mp, then last 4at mp, then last 8.
nate
Untitled Comment
3:26 PM, September 5, 2008
.. Posted by Anonymous
ive copied alot of the ideas from youre training logs and havent been below 100 miles for over a year now. for the first 9-10 months of this i concentrated on real long tempo runs at marathon pace ish. built up to the point where i ran up to 40-50 miles in a given week at 5.30 or so.now i definately got very strong but i wasnt getting any faster, so recently i redressed my training balance to include a 10k paced session (8k worth), which i never did, 4-6 miles tempo run with 2-3 miles vo2 max intervals after (200-400m) and my usual 8-10 miles at marathon pace (the session i did do 5 times in a week several times) and the rest 7-7.30 min/mile, usually 110-120 per week, by varying my pace ive dropped over a minute from my 10k (32.04-30.51), my point is im not sure how this will translate in marathon terms (2.24) but im hoping this new found speed will carry over to longer racing aswell.i feel rude suggesting anything to you since ive copied so much and learnt about specific marathon prep but maybe you would benefit spending the winter on improving your speed over 10k-HM, whilst maintaining a small marathon component weekly,now it seems your health/injury issues are sorted, and then come spring next year having had a string of good training and pr's really smashing a good 8 week block of solid marathon prep into a big race away from home, say london?make it a massive focus over 6 months rather than jumping straight into NYC.
anyhow whatever you decide to do im sure it will work out,good luck.not that i believe in luck.is the saying "the harder i work the luckier i get."
No no don't feel rude at all. You are dead right I do to make much more of a breakthrough need to work speed and I plan a full indoor season this year. But I'm fit enough to run a marathon and I need some of the longer stuff as well, that I have been neglecting because I couldn't do it. Also I have other reasons for wanting a fall marathon. Not the least of which is that i'm a very sub par 5k/10k even half guy and it is near impossible for me to make a living without a marathon. But also I want consideration for the at large spots for the world champs in berlin. I would have done twin cities to get a spot but frankly the hammy took too long and I don't have time to prepare properly. There are some other motivating factors as well but there not the point. the point is you are totally right, if I can't break 14 for 5k it is going to be damn tough to run 2:08. Now actually breaking it isn't all that important but getting the speed to do so is. So again I plan at least one speed cycle next year and maybe two or three depending on a number of factors in terms of world champs and other marathon options.
I'm really glad you have improved so much and I think as long as you do a very specific marathon prep phase you should see big improvements in your marathon as well. Now by the charts a 30:51 is 2:23:10 pace but if you ran 2:24 off of 32:04 You should expect to improve about the same number of seconds per kilo in the marathon as in the 10k and that would put you right around 2:19. Now given what the qualifier is for the next trials that is very exciting. so I would suggest training to try to run 3:17 a kilo which is 5:17 a mile pace. this comes out to about 2:18:30. You have lots of time and may be able to get much better but its a real good training pace for your next \marathon, even if you are a couple seconds off per k and you don't quite hit it first time out all the training miles will help you in your next attempt.
Ok again I'm thrilled you have been able to use some of my stuff and impressed with your success, keep it up. And I totally agree with your assessment of my training needs.
nate
world champs
7:13 PM, September 5, 2008
.. Posted by Anonymous
Nate
good workout, what do you have to do to recieve that bid for worlds?
nate jenkins ....
8:48 PM, September 5, 2008
.. Posted by Anonymous
a man, a myth, and ah yes... definitely a legend soon
while now that they combined the world cup with the world champs and take 5 for the marathon so they can do a team competition what they do is hold a national championship, twin cities. and the top 3 with the A standard are given a automatic birth. then it's a selection process but to be eligible you have to have a world champs A standard which is the same or slower then the Olympic A standard which is 2:15:00. Basically the best way to make the team is to be at twin cities but circumstances didn't allow so I'll be shooting for the back door. Funny thing is that if I run well enough in NYC to get selected it will make running the world champs a poor economic decision. But frankly I don't care I want championship and heat marathon experience and my life is just a series of poor economic decisions. I have the financial savvy of your average dog.
nutritionist
8:17 PM, September 6, 2008
.. Posted by Anonymous
hi, I was just wondering if you were able to give the conact information for the nutritionist you are working with. I would love to talk with someone who really knows a lot about a runner\'s nutritional needs as I have a history of stress fracures that I think may be related to deficiencies in my diet. Thanks!
who cares
10:52 AM, September 8, 2008
.. Posted by Anonymous
who cares about where the mile markers are--who cares about hearing what Nate might burp up--people get a life!! Have a budweiser, run a few miles and enjoy life--anyone here ever try that??
