Training June 2 to 8

Monday AM the finn for massage/treatment ect..

               PM woods 10 solo, 1:08:50 tot. 10

               XT Swedish ball hammy extentsions and core, all I can do with the heal for the

                      Hammy

Tuesday AM woods 10 solo, 1:10:40, tot. 10

               XT 90 mins bikram yoga

Wednesday AM woods 8 w/ gary just under an hour, tot. 8

                    XT 90 mins bikram yoga

Thursday AM the finn for massage/treatment/ect..

                PM woods 10, 1:11:16 tot. 10

                 XT 90 mins bikram yoga

Friday AM woods 10, 1:12:08 tot. 10

Saturday PM woods 10, 1:10:48 tot. 10

Sunday Noon woods 10, 1:13:08 tot. 10

              XT Swedish ball hammy extension curls ect..

Summary 68 miles for the week, heel not any better the yoga helped at first but then didn’t, second trip to the finn didn’t seem to do much good.  Not real sure whats up.  Was supposed to race but I’ll pulled out of it.  Not the best week all around.  I’m thinking of getting a job.

 Quote of the week  “Beware the lollipop of mediocrity - lick it once and you suck forever.”

Unknown

Untitled Comment

3:49 PM, June 9, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

chin up!long term you wont lose anything still doin 10 mile days, im sure youve had complete days off for many days in a row and come back better and stronger.its a rest but you will be holding base conditioning. get a job for a while, take your mind off it, never did ron hill and co any harm, it was part of his life, not his whole life. as for your quote there is nothing mediocre about you, i think you know yourself you have been in 2.11 shape (trials NYC), plug away for 4 more years,two hours a day, it will all click with persistence and get on that plane to london 2012.

thanks

5:07 PM, June 9, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

thank you and sorry for whining, I was in a bad mood when I posted and should have waited.

Aerobic training pace

5:53 PM, June 9, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey Nate,

I've been reading your blog for about 8 months now and I am sorry to see things are going rough. Honestly though, for a true marathoner, this is the perfect time to take some recovery weeks like you are. You are still within a 21 week period for NY, 24 for Philly etc.

As to my question. I am doing my first marathon in NY and shooting for a 2:35. I am in a base period and as expected as my mileage is increasing, and it is getting hotter out, my daily pace is slowing on aerobic conditioning. I see sometimes you'll go as slow as 8min miles.

What is your take on aerobic conditioning pace? Am I better off doing 80 a week at 6:30-7:00, or 100+ at 7:00 to 8:00? This is about what happens to me as I increase--right now I am in the 80's.

Thanks,
Dave

Untitled Comment

7:08 PM, June 9, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

im not nate but without a doubt more easy miles at your slightly slower pace. whether you go 6.30 or 7.30 you are below aerobic threshold, you will burn primarily fats so you get better at burning that fuel at all paces. the more fat you burn at a given pace the less lactic acid you accumulate and the easier it feels. go hard when your meant to, easy when your not, more modulation more volume.

Marathon base

8:39 PM, June 9, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

Dave,
I agree with the last comment for the most part. More varieties of paces. Try not too get too caught up in miles, you need to do a lot of them but honestly it is an area where people have succeeded with a huge variety of mileage. Now Canova's book says you need to do at least 135 miles a week, but abdi has run 2:08 (lost a minute to the wind in that race to boot) and he rarely if ever cracks 110. Be more worried about getting in aerobic quality and good long tempo's this summer then mileage total. The things you really should be doing are aerobic threshold work, hill work and just getting really all around fit. Then come the specific phase you should be focused mostly on running as many miles at mp as possible and doing a long run or two for the time of the marathon, so for you 2:35 but at 90 to 95% of pace, I prefer 90% over hilly terrain. So that would be like 6:50 pace.
Next point if your MP is 5:50 running 6:30 is very very fast. Now because your volume is lower you should be able to do workouts a little faster and runs but that is almost workout hard. Particularly if you find your shorter runs are faster then your longer runs, its fine from time to time but your longer runs should be run a bit faster then your shorter ones. The same pace at the worst if not you are slowing your development by going too hard on your shorter runs.
Last up a while back I did a blog on marathon training, check it out. Just check back through the archives. Good luck!!

Untitled Comment

11:48 PM, June 9, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Whatever you do don't get a real job. Work is for suckers. :-)

Hamsting injury

2:43 PM, June 10, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hi Nate,

Do a search on Google for "high hamstring tendinopathy." I almost garantee this is the issue you are dealing with. I am still looking for that specific article I mentioned I had. There is a lot more information out there on this issue than there was when I was trying to find out about it. This is a good thing for you.

Regard,

Brad K.

will do!

5:47 PM, June 10, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

Thanks Brad will do. I have been doing more of the swedish ball extensions and they seem to help, because of the achilles I haven't been able to do the backwards figure 8 running but hopefully I'll be back at that by next week.
thanks again.
nate

Anonymous

10:57 PM, June 12, 2008 .. Posted by Dave

Hey Nate, I love how you post all of your workout info in detail, not a lot of elite athletes are willing to share their training plan. I also love how you've been incorporating more of the Italian method of marathoning from coaches like Renato Canova and Luciano Gioglotti. I'm sorry to hear youve been having problems with your heel, that sucks. Maybe you should consider taking time off from running in general if it doesn't clear up, maybe all you need is rest and the overall accumulation of miles since last year is beginning to take a toll. Anyway, I wish you the best.

Dave

inspiring

11:12 PM, June 12, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

wow, this training your doing is pretty damn hard, where do your get the inspiration for this? what makes you get up early every morning?

I know normal athletes like myself normally think that all elite athletes like yourself have everything easy. Now from reading your blog, I know thats not the case. You've definitely got it harder than most athletes at your level because you do not have all the resources like most of the pampered athletes at Nike have. They have nutritionists, physiotherapists, sports psychologists, alter g treadmills, and other stuff while you seem to be doing much of this stuff on your own.

Well Nate I hope things get better, I think you are the definition of what a "blue collar runner" and you are what the Olympic dream is all about.

Heal Up

2:29 AM, June 13, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey Nate, followed your training for a while...might I make a suggestion? I had some hip, hamstring and groin troubles and I tried everything to fix it...very frustrating...shoes, stretch, stregnth, changed beds, ice, heat, a little yoga, tried everything....then one day I was frustrtaed and kicked off my shoes and ran a few laps around a soccer field...no pain, nothing....I've spent the last 6 weeks running either barefoot or in flats around the soccer field(very soft grass-Pacific Northwest) and eveything feels good. I've eved eased back on to track and back at 30 second 200's....I think the reduced pounding helped and I've built up some of the smaller stabilizers and some core from the soft grass with a natural foot strike!!!

Best of luck, NO DAY JOB, you can make the jump!!!

JC

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responses

8:07 PM, June 16, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

I would say most top guys don't have it any easier then I do. There really isn't a whole lot of support out there unless you are a medal contender. And even then they have better resources but they still have to put in a ton of work. But there are a number of guys out there who are better then me and they make a few more bucks every year but they don't have all the bells and whistles that people think of when it comes to pro's. No nutritionist, they pay their physio, they pay for their massages, they don't have a anti gravity treadmills or training homes in multiple locations.
JC, I actually do almost all of my runs in road flats or xc flats, i have occasionally run barefoot in the past and do strides barefoot from time to time. I have used heavier shoes a bit over the past few months because of a bruised metatarsal head but they were all neutral. It sounds like you have been running in shoes too heavy or with unnecessary motion control in it. I know you know this but I point it out because a lot of other people are too, more is not better when it comes to shoes and 95% of people should be in a quality flexible neutral trainer and the guys at the specialty stores are pushing the posted heavy tanks and they cause many more problems.
Dave, time off is never the answer, sometimes it needs to be done but the idea that things heal from rest is misleading, they don't heal they just stop hurting but the problem will come right back when you get running hard again. Also small stabilizer muscles weaken quicker then the big muscles so when you come back from layoff you are more suceptable to injury. Also time off is time losing fitness, better to train a bit banged up and take longer to heal but not lose fitness then to take time off and lose a ton of fitness and then have to waste weeks and months building back up, now obviously there are exceptions but I'm not close to that yet.

Untitled Comment

11:58 PM, June 16, 2008 .. Posted by Dave

Nate, I wanted to ask if there is such a thing as a "runner's body"?

When I was in high school I had a larger frame than some of my teammates and they would give me **** for it saying I didn't belong in running. But I still beat the kids who were much thinner than me, I wasn't fat, but had a solid build.

Is having a larger frame bad ? Does it tell you what event you belong in?

I see larger runners in the middle distances, you know the more Peter Snell type guys. Do you think larger guys can succeed at longer races like the marathon or half marathon?

Biomechanics/Footwear and Injury

12:12 AM, June 17, 2008 .. Posted by Dave

Hey Nate, one more question.

How much of an impact do biomechanics and footwear have an impact on injuries. I've been reading a popular book called "chi running", this book which is directed more towards recreational runners, argues that wrong mechanics is the main cause of running injuries and that one should incorpaoirate tai chi related skills to elevate their running technique. The author argues also that less is more, that he completed ultramrathons on no more than 30 mi/week.

Also, another question on footwear. I have flat feet and they are wide as well (2E). However when I went to a running shoe store they evaluated my gait and said I supinate, that my feet land laterally on the outside. I've tried running in shoes like the dyad, but they have too much cushion. I think that modern shoes incorporate too much technology, and are restricting natural foot motion and therefore foot strengthening.

mechanics ect..

12:39 AM, June 17, 2008 .. Posted by nateruns

Is there a running body? yes and no I mean you can find all sorts of shapes of runners, great runners, who are 4'11 or 6'6". Paul McMullan once cracked 4 in the mile at 196 pounds, laban rotich ran under 3:50 at less then 100 pounds. All runners are thin but that is a realitive term. If your thinner you'll be less injury prone unless you are not eating enough then you'll get hurt cause your body isn't get enough full to keep it recovering. Does size pick your event, nope. Snell ran 1:44 on a grass track solo at 170Lbs, Deek was rarely under 160Lbs but ran 2:07. Your muscle type and mental make up and your training pick your event.
You can do less and you will probably be a bit healthier, certainly there is less risk, of course we in the USA tried to do the less is more thing all through the 90's and we sucked at every level, look at the top 10 pro's, college and HS times in the distance events compared to now and compared to before. Now smarter is better but you train smarter not so that you can do less work and get the same results but so you can do more work and stay healthy doing it.
Now supponation, listen anyone who tells you this shoe is for you is making a guess, if it doesn't work it ain't the right shoe for you, if they can't admit that then they need a new job. I recently had a very good physio tell me about a study that had recently been completed in which they studied runners who had never been injured. All of them were extreme suppanatiors. For whatever thats worth.

Untitled Comment

12:40 AM, June 17, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hey Dave, have you ever seen Nate? Google an image of him and it will answer your last question.

Untitled Comment

1:15 AM, June 17, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous

i just accidentally can across this page while looking for info on running. i don't mean to sound mean but, it seems that your entire life is running. you need to get a life and just run in it. are you married? do you have a job? do you go out on saturday nights? do you go to the beach? have fun with life because its passing you by and fixating on your problems is not going to cure them.